I agree with this. There is absolutely no reason to thrown objects at opposing players its disrespectful and unsportsmanlike. It looks trashy on the pitch and that reflects us as fans.

Often times we as a section get blamed for the actions of a few. It's important that all of us fight this stigma and problem before the team gets penalized.

Section 8 certainly got the blame for being the source of the bottle, but sitting a few rows up from the opposition bench we could see how adamant they were for some type of penalty on the FIRE. Every bottle thrown adds up to something and eventually the league or the Fire someone will somehow penalize the FIRE players (and maybe at a time when they can ill afford it) for the actions of a couple of new fools.

To Whom It May Concern: As we talk about respect for the field and the in the case of throwing bottles at the other teams how about respect for members of section 8 who are actually at the game to watch the game? What do I mean by that? Well, let me start by saying I am a fond admirer of all the pre-game and the during game antics of the section. That is why I am a season ticket holder. I also like the idea of respecting one and other as members of the same family. Now, what am I talking about its Saturday night, we are up by one there is two minutes left in the game and than they add four injury time minutes, The flags go up, The smaller flags are just great, but in front of the goal you have the largest flag in the section, obstructing the complete goal and the play on the field. Now if the game is over thats great but in a close fought match it obstructing. now having had the fact that it is an obstructed view ticket I paid for by the helpful officer of section 8 officer enlighten me, I have to ask the question, because you can it has to be? What I witnessed is that the flag guy ignored the fact that alot of fans where asking him to put it down. Now it wasn't just one person it was alot. Now I understand the idea of carrying out with a mission, but not responding to the crowd at all? So that is ok, section 8 I thougt was for the crowd and its members. Now the non responsive following of orders is not cool. It would not have killed him to put the flag down so we the members of section 8 could see the end of the game. I am just asking for a little respect as a fan and member of section 8...

Respect for fans is important as well, but I'm not sure yet if flags at that point are the right or wrong thing to do. To be in the section means we sometimes give up some benefits of the game in order to contribute to the positive results on the field.

Do flags at the end of a close gave inspire the players to perform better? Can they inspire more fans in the stadium to sing and cheer more? To me, that's more important than if I can personally see the field. But if they don't work in the ways I just suggested then they could be causing more harm than good.

Asking politely to put the flags down is one thing. Getting told to put the F'n' flag down, grabbing and pulling at the flag, as well as having beer thrown on you is another.
There is always the possibility that in the section the flags will go up. Yes people who complained, but I also know people who say it adds to the atmosphere.
It is an obsrtuctive view section which all of us deal with. People waving small flags during the game has blocked my sight. I just try and move to see around it. Tall people stand in front of me, I am short, I try to move and see around it.
We have been doing these flags for a long time. The new barricade has pushed us back. We can not move down because then people who do not have obstructed view tickets would be blocked.
These are just a few thoughts.
Suggestions. Move up in the stands the flags won't block your view.
We want people to take part in Section 8. The more the merrier. But we have to take into consideration everyones way of support. I personally think the flags at the beginning and end are a beautiful sight. I'm sorry some disagree.

I was one of the people asking for the flag to be taken down. I was also accused of grabbing the flag, when in actuallity it was the girl a row in front of me. I did grab the flag after she got hold of it, but I was trying to get her to let go. Wearing a bright yellow jacket is my fault, clearly I was easiest to pick out. Whatever to that, it happens

I had a hoarse voice (from singing and yelling) and when I went down to talk to the guys about what we could better do, they were defensive as all hell. I get it, you want the flags to create a rowdy environment. It is totally sweet too. I think it distracts the players shooting at our goal and hopefully affects their shots.

Let's all figure out a better solution. That's all I ask. So, here are my two suggestions:
-move the bigger flags away from the middle. You will not obstruct as many views if they are more to the side. Think about the angles and realize that if everyone is looking at the goal, the farther the big flags are, the less eyes obstructed. I am 100% certain of this.
-get some skinny flags. the tall skinny ones. I don't know how much those would be.

We don't have to give up any benefits to make the results on the field better. That is absurd to say. To say that some people should expect to suffer annoyance such as these is a great way allienate people. My friends and others I know would say that if you can't see the field when you are at the game, stay home and watch it on TV. That is not the goal of Section 8. That hurts the team.

Anyway, I want to be constructive and I hope I am not offending anyone.

also -- At Bears' games (who I support just as much), they run the flags along the endline.

Why not parade all of the flags back and forth? That would make for the same visual sight from the field, but would cut down on the amount of time that there is a flag blocking your view. Gaps in between the moving flags.

Not a good idea?

I like the idea of not blocking the view of the goal. People in 119 and 116 might get pissed though.

And no, you're not offending people. I'm sure there's a balance even if supporting the team is the first priority.

I think this is a great discussion, abosutely. I do want to state I witnessed the beer being thrown, and it appeared to me that the person who through it was not intending to drench anybody , the beer went to the side of that person, Clearly, now if they want to say they were soaked I would question it.... People in the crowd asked in many differant ways to put the flag down. Yes swearing was part of it. But come on ignoring people is bad to...I grabbed a flag I was guilty. Was it rude, maybe, I didn't tear it or rip it down, I just held it out of my way so I can see the play.... I am not oppossed(spelling) to flags, I think they are great and generally it is what makes this thing of ours great. The super monster ones make it hard thats all. If I offended a flag guy thats unfortuneate(spelling), I just wanted to see the game. I generally do not sit in the front, I just won't, so I won't have to deal with it in the future.

tiger, ben, josh -

My point is that you shouldn't have to deal with it.

There are stadiums with obstructed view seating. Obstructed view as in a pole (Wrigley). Or a seat facing parrell to the field (Fenway). Or standing room only where the facade blocks your view (Wrigley again).

Toyota park doesn't have any of that guff. Don't claim that the fans should expect to not see la maquina roja play on the field they are standing 20 feet from.

That is absolutely not the goal of Section 8.

Blocking a fans view for a BRIEF time to lead a song, after a goal, before kick-off, by all means DO IT. That is understandable.

Blocking a fans view for MINUTES at a time is wrong. We are not talking stationary objects here.

Wave, run, change position of the big flags.

As far as blocking the view of 116 and 119, if section 8 is trying to rile up the fans and get loud, distracting and quieting the the first 15 rows ( /-) of section 8 because they are pissed won't get 116 and 119 any louder.

If you are thinking that we are just diong it the way they do it in other stadiums, like at Stamford Bridge where until the early 90s they had only standing room and most people couldn't see the field, or in South America where flags are constantly being held taught overhead, then let me propose this:

Let's be better fans than them. Let's be legendary fans. We have the ability to make soccer Chicago's sport. That stadium can only get more fun. Can we do this? Yes.

I am a brand new Section 8 fan from Southern California, but I am no stranger to the Fire. John Thorrington played for me in high school and I have been a fan ever since he signed with Chicago. But, even though I am in California, I try to catch every game and I love the incredible energy and enthusiasm of the Section 8 fans have for their team, and for the game. I hope to join you guys for a match someday at Toyota Park and I will be proud to be a part of the revelry with or without a huge flag in my face!

When the Fire come out to play Chivas and the Galaxy, I will try to live up to your example and represent you all well! Way to go, Fire fans!

Maybe I'm just getting old, but for the first time in my 10 years of fire games I'm actually considering moving out of section 8. Not all the way on the other side of the stadium, but somewhere where I can actually watch the game that our team is there to win. I like that yellowjacket is trying to offer some solutions, although I don't necessarily agree. If anything the flags should move to the middle, thereby not blocking 116 and 119. Plus people like me that want to still be part of the section and stand and sing, can move to the outside and still watch the match. This might also help encourage those same people in 116 and 119 to stand and sing. I just get the feeling that there are a lot of people leaving the section for various reasons ( I had nacho cheese thrown on me at the home opener). It's too bad because we're all like minded and there's plenty of room between 117 and 118 for everyone to have a place to enjoy the game. Again, I have no problems with the tifo thing, the flags and what not. I would just prefer it before the game, after a goal, and after the game. I do find it irritating in the final minutes of stoppage in a 2-1 match with the ball in our end. I understand that everyone in the section has a right to wave a flag and that's great, I also have the right to bitch and move. Like I said in the beginning, maybe I'm finally getting too old for the section. Unfortunately, I guess I'll try moving and finding a place where I can have fun and still watch my beloved Fire. It's too bad that an issue like this is distracting us from, and let's be honest, the only reason that most of us talk to each other or even know each other. -Fire till I Die.

Old? I gotta be older than you....

For us old fogies an old idea has returned many times in the past month or so: Section 80. Near Section 8 but less rowdy for us old farts.

I do love this discussion though. There may be no way to solve this issue for everyone, but we can at least make better decisions with the input.

I just want to say, normally the flags will be waving. But, when we have wind like we did on Saturday it is near imposible to wave the big flags.
It is important that we see each others sides. I understand that being down in front it can be hard to see. I've been there. Event he goal posts can get in the way. But I stand by the flags and them being part of the atmosphere. I vote to keep them.
Anybody who wants to have the conversation is always welcome. I am at the URS tailgate by the comic book van every game.
We as fans work together to make the atmosphere what it is. Not against each other.
I don't want anyone to have hard feelings. But again we can't please anyone.

As a side comment, no I wasn't soaked in beer but the fact that someone throws it greatly upsets me. Just think if it was you.

Great point about waving the big flags in the wind. That makes 100&#xse;nse.

Now what if we got those skinny, more manageable ones? I know money is well spent and there is no wasting, so is there a chance that those could work?

The beer throwing is a bad sight. Really obnoxious and totally out of hand. The fact the someone (presumably) over 21 is that immature is in-excusable.

I felt that I was written off, or looked at with annoyance after that game when I tried to talk to you guys face to face. You were pissed about the beer and general abuse and understandably so (I know you probably weren't mad at me). I want you guys to realize that while the flag waving is generally the coolest way to show our support, you flag wavers were the only people within the first 15 /- rows that saw that corner kick, the shot on goal and the end of the game. I still think that is wrong and will keep discussing ways to fix this.

I don't beleive that anyone sits in the section purely because they're the cheap tickets. Anyone can buy the cheap GA tickets and then wander over to any other section. I know, I did it for the second half of the KC game because I brought my friend and his kid and they wanted to sit. Either people are just ignorant of that fact, or actually want to be in the section. I don't agree with the "we can't please everyone" attitude. I'm not telling anyone not to wave flags. However just because I want to stand, sing and watch the game doesn't make me any less of a fan. I feel that I'm not alone, as evidenced by the comments made here and heard at the games. Like I said before, we have plenty of room in the section for both. I just don't want potentional newbies turned off by the section because they can't see the game they came to watch. The rest of the people in the stadium that we're trying to involve in the songs, came to watch the game, not section 8. I'm not saying that the section is not fun to watch, it's definitely an entertaining aspect of the gameday experience.

I don't even know if there is a concrete solution. I don't want to see segregation. That may just be what happens naturally. In fact, I believe it's already happening with all the people that don't even stand in the section anymore. I've noticed more and more people standing up at the top near the concessions. There has to be a way to offer something for everyone. If not, a lot of loyal die hard supporters, potential section members and road trip travellers will be left out. That's no way to grow the support and love of Fire. The "my way or the highway" attitude has to stop if we're ever going to become a truly world class supprters group.

Ben, I read the section 80 thread. I like idea except for the sitting part. There's a whole stadium of seats for sitting on your hands. I may be getting older, but I'm not dead.

I think the Flags are great and I am not advocating the removing in any way of them. The biggest one is the problem...Beer being thrown is insulting I aggree, but I know the person made a real attempt to miss you it was clear, You Josh if you were the big flag, guy were probably in a bad spot, if you acknowledge them than nothing happens, no doubt. I respect all the volunteers you do it because other don't...I to like the section 80 comment, Saturday night made me feel 140 years old. I too really love the Fire, I believe ultimately the Fire is the Fire that redeems, and as long as you all have Blanco in your heart we are alright...

I'm still torn. I give up most of my game day but I don't expect everyone to do it.

Again, it comes down to do the flags hurt more than they help? Would they be more effective at the top of the section or less? Would they be more effective at the South end? Should we use them when the team is attacking towards the Harlem End?

In all honesty I don't even notice them anymore because I've grown accustomed to them. Does the rest of the stadium outside of us get inspired by them?

First off, I hope that nobody is taking what I say as I think I am a better fan. I don't think that. Yes we do all support the same team. Yes we do all do it differently.

I will agree maybe I didn't handle the situation in the greatest way. But, this is something I have been doing for awhile I rarely get complaints (by this I mean one or two people and one game before now). With the moving of the barricade it has caused a logistics problem. We will consider the different suggestions. I promise that.

el tiger- I don't think that throwing beer in someones general vacinity is ever ok. I don't really care if they tried to hit me or not.

yellow jacket - I appologize if we didn't seem receptive. But, we did just go through a bunch of crap. I would like you to come and talk to me and maybe we can see eye to eye. Maybe.

Occupent - I would also like to talk to you. I totally get the section 80 and when I bring my small son I will probably be in a different section.

Ben - you are awesome as usual.

josh, we will see eye to eye as long as we continue the discussion. I promise.

What about having a "rule" about the flags being up at certain times and down at critical points.

For instance, on a set piece during the flag holding times they shouldn't be up (in my opinion). I do not think the flags effect the game play as much as we are supposing. These guys are concentrating on their jobs, not the fans. The fans are effected more and to the better...perhaps.

And when the ball isn't within scoring distance (when our view is not great to begin with), we should wave the hell out of them in order to get the fans going.

Josh- Let me tell you what I really think, Throwing beer, is crazy and an act of a deranged man, I drink my beer...In all seriousness Respect has always been something I have experianced in the section. I bring my 5 year old daughter to the section and I don't have problems. Throwing beer at somebody or near somebody is troublesome ultimately. I will give you that, and how you react is up to you. I might get angry who knows. On your job as a flag guy, I will say here that, I can see that you took that job very seriously, and that you were trying to do your volunteer job, so maybe that is where some of the ignoring comes from. As far as I am concerned I have learned from this thread and it has only brought me respect for the section not less, so when I see you before the game or at the Globe, if I have any money I will buy you a beer which we will drink... Viva Los Partisans, Viva La Shandy Sisters!!!!!

I'm coming up from Birmingham to Chicago a couple of weeks. I've got tickets for Section 119 Row 4 for the Houston game. Is this a good spot to get involved the the Section 8 rowdiness? It seems like a blast and I think it's great what you guys do to try and grow the game in the US.

Any suggestions on things to do before and after the game would be great.

Thanks...

Section 119 is right next to Section 118. You can just stand up and walk over to us. If you're looking to meet people before the game, look for our Tailgate FAQ on our website. It's under the "Section 8 News".

http://www.section8chicago.com/jm3/content/view/146/119/

But, right by Gate B is an area where we meet, three hours before every game.

Yeah 119 will be a great place to be a spectator of 118 and 117 (section 8). But if you want to join in like Ben said hop on over. Come tailgate three hours early we would all like to meet you.