Nice write up.

While I concur that negotiations are in order. Unless we are not being given the full information it appears that folks were already attempting to negotiate with staff. The resutls? Fire staff struck back at those who were willing to speak out against discrimination.

Benjamin you do those who put themselves out there a disservice.

You act as if Section Eight members haven't attempted to negotiate with the staff of the Fire. They did and we are seeing the results. Let's not forget that it was the staff of the Chicago Fire, not Section 8 who reacted in a negative way.

I like that you recognize that discrimination is wrong in your opening sentence. But saying it in the first sentence doesn't mean anything. Your following paragrahps speak louder.

Bascially by saying that "racism is wrong" but following it up with "let's not get too bent out of shape about it" you send a message that discrimination should only be confronted when convenient.

How long is long enough? Isn't five years long enough? That's how long Sectiono Latino is saying that they have been harassed. If it had been you, or your girlfriend or brother wouldn't you think five years is quite enough? I'm not Latino but I certainly would have and when I would have read that you are telling me to be paitent I would have to ask exactly whose side are you really on?

Yes this will only end thru negotiation. Yes we should encourage all sides to talk. This will not be resolved over night but that doesn't mean we should simply go back drink our beers in the parking lot and ignore the reality around us. It does not give us the right to act as if The Fire are the victims in all of this.

The Fire are not the victims here and neither is the security firm.

The real victims are those who had to stand there and listen to racial comments thrown at them.

The real victims are those who endured harassment because of who they are at each game.

The real victims are those who for the love of their team were made to feel different and unwelcomed while we all stood silenty by and did nothing.

Shame on you and shame on all of us!

Although I like the response of the Fire to show they to can be just as petualnt as some of the rants we have been on by taking away the right/privelage to have flags on poles throughout the stadium--(I'm sure it's a different word-meaning varying by personal side of the argument). Good job Fire....that'll teach'em.

It is possible for Monterrey to be removed from Toyota Park, or at the least, from Section 8. Believing it isn't possible is your opinion, but it happens to be wrong: if Andell wanted it done, it could happen.

I'm also not sure what the part about the press conference refers to. The ISA simply asked the Fire to acknowledge there had been a problem at the table for the purposes of discussion: there has been no request for a press conference or even a press release.

Finally, supporters are right to expect a rapid response to an incident as serious as this. A failure of organisation on the part of the Fire is no excuse. Guppy was fired months ago, and we know the owner is prepared to make big decisions himself (see: Ring of Fire).

Reason and calm and a cool-head...well, no shit. I don't believe anyone is speaking about "burning down our own house" in any sense, figuratively or literally. Quite the opposite. So now that I’ve said that, bear with me.

The Fire was given ample opportunity to respond to these incidents. They were made aware that these incidents took place a full week before our first meeting with them. Their response? To refuse, in writing, to acknowledge that any incidents even took place. Their response? To revoke long standing privileges and seating templates/agreements, as if to enact retribution and punish us like a group of petulant, spoiled children. They've infantilized us, and worse, they expect us to shut up and take it. Leaders of S8 did not walk away from either meeting until it was clear the Fire were interested in doing nada, except forcing Walter to meet face-to-face with Juan Gaytan: a man who twice by his superiors within the Chicago Police Department has been recommended for immediate dismissal, who is currently suspended without pay from the CPD for a number of incidents including pulling a woman from a squad car by her hair, then kicking her in the stomach after smashing her son in the face. A man who, during this week's past two meetings, Javier Leon told S8 leaders was a really nice guy and totally worth meeting. You be the judge: http://www.courant.com/news/ch...full.story
I’ve never met Juan Gaytan. Perhaps he is a good person, now. But, how can the Fire expect us not to be 100% wary? Why should we be forced to negotiate with anyone but the Fire? Isn’t the Fire and our fellow fans – S8 or not S8 – that we’re truly concerned about in this process? Yes, of course.
So far, what has come down from the Fire is straight from a Week Two, Unit #1 Sociology 101 lecture: victim-blaming. The Fire seem only interested in locating Sector Latino as the primary provocateurs in these exchanges.

Personally, I don't give a fuck. Nothing excuses bigotry of any kind. Nothing. And this includes Blanco’s bullshit excuse from the Tribune article of us being “drunk.” Really? Really!!!??!!! In case anyone has forgotten, Blanco allegedly wasn't even present at the game when these most recent incidents occurred. He was serving a suspension. The Fire reportedly even gave him permission to leave the country. Had he been here, he would've been playing, no?!? I’m pretty sure this means he would've been prevented by his playing commitments to administer breathalyzers to all of us as we entered the stadium. You know, like he usual does to all of us, which is just his funny way of saying how much he appreciates our massive support, and the money we contribute to the millions the Fire pay him. Blanco's words are a complete, highest-order betrayal of our trust, of his fans nation- and worldwide, and most importantly, of all Hispanic and Latino persons everywhere.

Furthermore, what is all this about S8 leaders meeting on "behalf of Sector Latino?" Walter was present in both meetings. S8 leaders were present only to support Walter as the lead representative of Sector Latino. These meetings were arranged specifically so Walter could present and detail these incidents (including specific badge numbers) and engage Fire officials in intelligent/even-keeled discourse. Balls, as the first meeting was nothing short of a glorified interrogation. During this interrogation, Walter and S8 leaders were constantly reminded that Monterrey is a minority operated company that is owned by a Mexican, Juan Gaytan. Again: http://www.courant.com/news/ch...full.story

(continued from above)

Judge for yourself.

Again, what is this concern with betraying trust? Too often too much of what we attempt to accomplish within and through our section is attempted and accomplished in spite of the Fire front office. In my experience, they seem keen on nothing, until we do it, and they have concrete proof that we're not trying to pull a fast one. Many folks across the section seem to share this mindset. We are constantly treated with distrust and contempt, both of which are administered from a begrudging arm's length.

This is a just another way of saying, we shouldn't act like the Fire held out an olive branch drenched in goodwill simply because they agreed to meet with us. We are acting in a transparent manner. We are not hiding the minutes from these meetings.

We must progress in a non-violent manner. We cannot allow ourselves to be provoked by ignorant thugs. We will show our love for the club and ALL OUR PLAYERS by acting together -- sitting or standing as one -- in even-tempered ways. Trust each other to support each other. Have your cameras ready to catch abuse. They think us drunken hooligans. Well, now is our chance to prove them wrong, once and for all with outside eyes fixed upon us.

One last thing to close this rant; I'm sick of the "othering" that's happening here, too. This isn't just a case of HISPANIC FANS being abused. This isn't a case of FIRE FANS being abused. This is just another old-as-jim-crow case of HUMAN BEINGS being abused, because they were born into a ethnic group that within our culture is dubbed a minority group. I'm a haggard redneck from southern West Virginia who comes born from a long-line of coalminers of thick Irish descent. So, unfortunately by American cultural standards, I suppose that would make me about the farthest "thing" from being a Hispanic or Latino. Bullshit. I'm Section 8 -- WB05 -- and so is Sector Latino. I'm a human being as are my brothers and sisters in Sector Latino. Best I can tell, that puts us side by side, shoulder to shoulder, equals, regardless of geography or any other crap, pseudo-origin of any other social construction of bigotry.


We have every right to "leak" whatever we choose to "leak." In fact, we’re not leaking anything, per se. We are not caught in negotiations concerning the merger of two corporations, stock options and/or the restructuring of a conglomerate. We’re talking about the quality of human life here. I believe we've handled this as delicately or indelicately as we've been forced to by the Fire. It is important that we believe that We As A Section have been harmed. There’s no excusing it, period. When you ask those who you trust for help, and they throw your trust back in your face, you must go ask someone else for the help you need. This is all we have done, nothing more.

We must be able to believe the following: 1, that all those in our section are SAFE any form of attack or retaliation; 2, that all those in our section are SAFE FROM ALL FORMS OF DISCRIMINATION. We must only negotiate with the Fire. Juan Gaytan and Monterrey are completely irrelevant to our negotiations.

I love the Fire. I love our Section. I believe in all of us completely. I know we can work this out together. However, we cannot allow ourselves to be bullied into any sort of compromise: lip-service, written or otherwise. We are not asking for self-rule. We are asking for police officers to be involved in our section so they can help protect us. We want a chance to work forward with the Fire in the most open and transparent of methods and paths possible.

We are not asking for beer prices to be lowered.

We are asking that no more hands and thumbs be broken, no more cameras seized and/or smashed by non-law enforcement officials, that no one else be tackled and drug across gravel, that no one else be followed into, around and throughout, then out of the stadium, pushed, threatened, and called any racial epithets whatsoever.

What trusts do our demands betray?

Only our own, if we refuse to act together as one people, one section. Viva Sector Latino!!! C’mon Section 8!!! Vamanos Chicago Fire!!!

"Bascially by saying that "racism is wrong" but following it up with "let's not get too bent out of shape about it" you send a message that discrimination should only be confronted when convenient."

Darryl, I think I understand why you are saying this, but you may be missing Benjamin's point. This treatment of our brothers and sisters must not be tolerated, but I think it is (unfortunately) unreasonable to expect the problem to be solved when we arrive at the Park tomorrow. We are taking steps to end M.S's racist behavior, but it sounds like they have not all been in the right direction (such as appealing to the media). We need to unite and stand firm, and never give an inch, but we must do this with clear heads and clean consciences or we may only end up making the problem worse. I'm sure most of us would love to pelt M.S. with bottles, but that doesn't mean we can, should, or will; and it's not going to make them go away either.

Good luck tomorrow, I wish I could be there in person.

When dealing with an incompetent, overwhelming proof will get nothing accomplished.

The only thing corporate middle management fears and understands is embarrassment and shame.

I didn't notice this was the more updated thread devoted to this issue. Rather than copy/paste, anyone interested can read my comments in the "Ending Racism At Toyota Park" subtopic.

As an add on --

I haven't been stationed at, or around, Section 8 for quite awhile so I couldn't comment on the validity of your complaints; but I'm curious -- how long have these racially charged comments been going on? Is it the same individuals using these terms, or a different face every week?

"We must be able to believe the following: 1, that all those in our section are SAFE any form of attack or retaliation; 2, that all those in our section are SAFE FROM ALL FORMS OF DISCRIMINATION. We must only negotiate with the Fire. Juan Gaytan and Monterrey are completely irrelevant to our negotiations."

And the players? Shouldn't they be safe from fans running onto field? You guys aren't saints. Quit acting like it. I ultimately believe your accounts of physical/verbal abuse. But your demands are unreasonable. The best you can hope for is for Monterrey to assign more qualified individuals to monitor Section 8. Has anyone thought of this?

"I love the Fire. I love our Section. I believe in all of us completely. I know we can work this out together. However, we cannot allow ourselves to be bullied into any sort of compromise: lip-service, written or otherwise. We are not asking for self-rule. We are asking for police officers to be involved in our section so they can help protect us. We want a chance to work forward with the Fire in the most open and transparent of methods and paths possible."

Numerous Monterrey staff members are off duty police officers. An easy method of distinguishing them from civilian employees is locating "Supervisor" on their t-shirts. Not all supervisors are offduty police officers; however, all police officers are supervisors.

"We are asking that no more hands and thumbs be broken, no more cameras seized and/or smashed by non-law enforcement officials, that no one else be tackled and drug across gravel, that no one else be followed into, around and throughout, then out of the stadium, pushed, threatened, and called any racial epithets whatsoever."

Many of these demands are reasonable. Except two -- the seizing of cameras (they're not allowed in the park); and the notion of not following the fans out of the stadium. Section 8 fans have been isolated due to their propencity to engage in unruly behavior.

No we're not saints. But not a single one of us has ever run on to the field. Every chance we've had, we've self-policed idiots who throw crap on our field and tried to turn them over to you guys.

Security always asks us to see the majority of them as "the good guys." But every single patron in 117/118 is considered a rowdy drunkard. "Keep your kids away from them." We all have dirty mouths and we'll beat you up with our PVC flags the first chance we get! Nothing could be further from the truth. Our passion is mistaken for aggression, and it is met with aggression as a first response almost every time.

We have repeatedly asked for a more educated detail to be assigned to S8, and it was a fight with Monterrey and the FO to get them to even agree that we should have a regular crew, let alone one that understood us. At the moment, we have as close to a consistent detail as we've ever had, a number of which we have been assured are your "best guys." And yet, here we are. We are not being unreasonable in asking that new security policies be put in place, as they have in DC and NY, for 117/118. At no time has the ultimatum been "Monterrey out of TP or Else."

I do not doubt that a number of you are understanding men and women who do their duty well and dont want to cause any trouble. You get a lot of grief from your superiors and employers when we act "out of control" in the Fire's eyes, and that creates an adversarial relationship between us. Misunderstanding and miscommunication plays one side against the other, and tensions rise. Unfortunately, some of your coworkers have chosen to respond with unfair practices and treatment.

There can be no compromise if one side refuses to recognize fundamental problems.

Those were Everton fans who ran onto the field of play, now i want you to show me the visual evidence of a SECTION 8er ever running onto the field.... MONTERREYSECURITYEMPLOYEE

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-tvK6E701X0

"the seizing of cameras (they're not allowed in the park)"

Actually, yes, they are - in most consumer circumstances (point and shoot digital cameras and cell phones). The regulations state:

"CAMERAS AND RECORDING DEVICES
No commercial or flash photography of any kind is permitted. Camcorders or any other audio/visual equipment is prohibited unless authorized in advance by the team/promoter or performer. Specifically, the use of the following equipment is not permitted:

* Lenses or Lens Attachments over 6"
* Monopods or tripods
* Flash equipment of any sort

Management reserves the right to change policies as events dictate. For most concerts, cameras and other recording devices are not permitted."

And it is still no excuse for an indefinite seizure. That is theft.

We've put together an F.A.Q. to try and help keep the information clear and accurate. If we continue to get a lot of repeat questions we'll update the F.A.Q. with the questions and answers.

http://www.section8chicago.com/jm3/component/option,com_myblog/show,An-FAQ-on-the-current-ISA-Fire-situation.html/Itemid,96/

Thanks to everyone for your support.

i must say, as a strong Fire supporter, this "demonstration" tonight was merely a staged performances by headless baffoons! i was emberrassed to see you SL-demonstrators acting that way. whichever genius came up with this "silent protest" idea might as well have been sitting on the DC corner. For gosh sakes,...DC sounded more united than we did! we all saw how much your silence helped our team tonight (but i guess thats not what Section 8 are for anymore). if you werent outraged by this pitiful "performance" then i would definitely question your loyalty to the club and your intelligence. SL have CLEARLY forgotten the purpose of a team supporters club. handle this directly with Toyota Park Mgmnt & their pockets. what message are you sending to anyone by sitting DUMB and unsupportive of your supposed team during the first half,...yet continue to buy their beverages and eat their food. Here in America, when you're affecting someone's pocketbooks, then and ONLY then, will you have volume in your case. This isnt meant to be racist in anyway, but rather to cause you to think before being another puppet in the crowd. just something to think about...how many of you took those Section Latino shirts not knowing the situation on hand this evening?

Last night I came with my family made up of my wife and two daughters. While we don't sit in Section 8 we did stroll the parking lot before hand and purchsed shirts for the whole family. One nice young man handed us small fliers explaining what would be happening in Section 8.

After a whole discussion with my family and a family vote we decided that together we would join you during the protest. From our seats we watched your banner unfold. One of my daughters cried as she saw security strip the banners away from you by the management of the Chicago Fire.

Please know that all of this was discussed by fans sitting our section. Everyone noticed that something was happening in Section 8. I think you would be surpised at the level of support that you have in other sections. While I am sure that management and others who "just don't want to be bothered" will continue to come up with excuses I want you to know that last night I saw you act in the proudest of American traditions. To act for what is fair and just would make our founding fathers proud.

I want you to know that all of you acted with restraint and maturity. I wish that the Chicago Fire had only chosen to do the same. The actions of the managment killed the spirit of the stadium and I am sadden to say that it was not just the players who lost last night.

Cristiano,

Sorry that you were so inconvienced over racism. Wow, it must have been really hard for you to have to go one whole half just because folks felt that speaking out against racism is part of who we are as a nation, as Chicago, as Section 8. Poor Cristiano, how you must suffer in your obviously difficult life.

I bet you were wrapped up in your own little fantasy world that you didn't even noticed why D.C. United Fans were chanted so loud during the first half, did you? They were chanting in support of Section 8. They were chanting to support all of us who feel that our support for The Fire doesn't last just 90 minutes. Our support runs deep in our blood and it means wanting the FIRE to be the greatest club on earth.

DC United was chanting FIRE chants to show their opposition to racism, to show their support for us. They have been through this before. Perhaps if you were a real supporter like you claim you would have noticed. The Club doesn't need part timers like you. It needs supporters who know that racism will tear the club about and who care enought to do something about it.

I was one of those who didn't know anything about the protest until someone handed me a flyer in 118. I was one of those who didn't have a shirt but supported anyway. Yes, there will always be folks like you who are more concerned about fullfilling their own wants before the wants of the club or even Section 8.

Luckily for The Fire you are in the minority. Go back to your mirror and enjoy your small pathetic life. The rest of us have a club to save from people and management like you.

Hey Cristiano,

Don't worry. You don't sound racist. Just shallow!

In the second incident Gayton took property because they owed debt to his father. Thou Gaytan wasnt fired he was working with a police recruit who was. The recruit was faultless probably didnt even know what was going on.

But the recruit was on probation and was easily fired.

He also didnt have Gaytans clout.

Gaytan never accepted respondsibility and i believe he has resigned.